Podcast and transcript from Goldman Sachs, June 2:
The economics of artificial intelligence
are more questionable today than two years ago, says Goldman Sachs
Research's Jim Covello, as enterprise buyers, model companies, and
hyperscalers have yet to show returns on their spend. In a conversation
with Alison Nathan and George Lee on Goldman Sachs Exchanges, Covello
discusses where we've seen economic value accrue to date and why
semiconductor companies can't continue to be the sole beneficiaries of
the AI buildout.
Transcript:
Jim Covello: Look, at some point you got to make money. You make investments in a business so that you can generate returns and make money. And we've gotten further away from that over the last couple years instead of closer to it. That doesn't mean it's never going to happen. It just means the stakes are higher.
Allison Nathan: Welcome to another episode of Goldman Sachs Exchanges. I'm Allison Nathan and I'm here with George Lee, co-head of the Goldman Sachs Global Institute. Together we're co-hosting a series of episodes exploring the rise of AI and everything it could mean for companies, investors, and economies.
[MUSIC INTRO]
George, great to see you again.
George Lee: Great to be here.
Allison Nathan: And this should be fun, George, because today we are talking to someone who at least in the past several years has really disagreed a fair amount, I think, or taken a different view than you on AI. Our guest is Jim Covello, head of global equity research here at Goldman Sachs. And again, you've had many debates with Jim about this topic.
George Lee: Well, first of all, it's great to have Jim here. He is both a great friend and a great thinker. And while we differ on some matters related to AI, actually there's much we agree on. And it's been very fun to have this dialogue over multiple years.
Jim Covello: Yeah, for sure.
George Lee: So, welcome Jim.
Jim Covello: Yeah, no, it's great to be here. Thank you. And I agree. Geroge is everything that makes Goldman Sachs great to me. And it's been incredible going on this journey with you. And here we are again.
George Lee: Here we are again. Exactly.
Allison Nathan: So, Jim, as we mentioned, a couple of years ago you came out with what I would characterize as a pretty skeptical, somewhat out of consensus view of generative AI. And you've particularly questioned the economics of the technology. You had a lot of doubts about whether the returns the technology would generate would ever really justify all of this capex we have seen pouring into the technology over the last couple of years.
So, two years on, where do you think you've been right?
Jim Covello: Yeah.
Allison Nathan: And where have you been wrong?
Jim Covello: Yeah. So, I like to start off with where we've been wrong. And so, we just published another report most recently where we started off with where we've been wrong. And we called it "The Mark to Market - Two Years Later" versus the report that you and I worked on together.
So, firstly, consumer adoption of AI has been magnificent. Much greater than I expected. George accurately predicted that spot on. So, we've been wrong about that.
One of the things that we talked a lot about in the original report and we talk about in this report is most consumers are still using a free version of AI. So, really to get to the heart of the economic issue, we still really need to focus on the enterprise. But I do really think it's important to acknowledge how great consumer adoption has been and just how accurate George has been about that.
The second thing we talk about in the most recent report where we've been wrong was, we predicted two years ago that if the hyperscaler stocks underperformed for a significant period of time, we would expect that they would scale back on the capex. And they have underperformed because of the significant investment in capex and the negative impact on their free cash flow. But instead of cutting the capex, they've actually raised the capex. So, I think that calls into question the economics even more going forward. But the reality of it is that they've massively increased the capex despite the stocks underperforming, which is not what we expected.
And then I would add that I think the technology itself has made incredible progress, very consistent with George's predictions. And I think any conversation has to really emphasize that and acknowledge that.
All of that said, I think the economics are still very much in question. And if anything, I'm probably as or more skeptical on the economics today than I was before, despite how incredible the technology is.
Allison Nathan: Before George weighs in, let me just ask you, why do you think we have continued to see all of this capex?
Jim Covello: Yeah. I think there's a tremendous amount of FOMO at every level of the supply chain. And it doesn't mean that it's not justified. I just think that we're spending well in advance of where the economics are right now. And I think it's because everybody is afraid of what happens if the technology really takes off and finds significant positive economic use cases. And your competitors have that figured out and you don't. And I think that's everything from the enterprise level to the model layer to the hyperscaler layer.
And one of the things that we talk a lot about in our report is all of the value, all of the economic value has continued to accrue to the semiconductor companies. It's been incredible economic value that's accrued to the semiconductor companies. And we do talk a lot in the report that we've really never seen anything like that. Right? I covered semiconductor stocks directly for 16 years. And in every cycle, the semiconductor stocks thrive when their customers thrive. Here in this cycle, the semiconductor companies are thriving at the economic expense of everybody above them in the chain.
And so, at some point that has to rectify itself. Either everybody above them in the chain needs to start to generate a profit as well. Or they're going to have to eventually scale back on the semiconductor spending. And that's where we make the focus of this report.
Allison Nathan: So, George, is Jim right to be concerned about these economics?
George Lee: Yeah, I think this is actually one of the areas where we agree. And we published a paper recently out of the Goldman Sachs Global Institute that talked about the scale of this investment, just how high the bar will be, how high the hill is that we have to climb to generate sufficient payback. And, you know, the nub of our analysis is pivoting off some of the work that Jim's done is that you have to move beyond the traditional notion of disruption of existing profit pools.
Jim and his team did a great piece about the advertising business and how much of that could be intervened by AI players, etcetera. And I think if you go profit pool by profit pool and sum up the opportunity, you'd still fall short of a significant enough payoff from what we think will be $7 to $8 trillion spent here.
Now, that to me is not the end game. I think the opportunity and in fact the imperative for this technology is to help create net new economic activity, breed new TAMs. Create new affordances that we can't imagine. And this has been the history of major technological waves, whether it's agricultural revolution, industrial revolution, computer revolution, etcetera.
But I certainly would stipulate, to Jim's point, that there's a big hill to climb for this payoff.
The second thing I think we agree on, though I think we differ in terms of time scale on this, is enterprise adoption is really important to this. It has been slower than we might have hoped or expected. And yet, I try to anchor back to the fact that we are three and a half years into this. And this is a technology that is both novel, it's paradigmatically different than old technologies because it's probabilistic versus deterministic. There's a brand-new stack of technologies required to deploy it in the enterprise. And there's an entirely new set of control planes necessary to use it responsibly, effectively, and compliantly.
And so, all of that just takes time. I continue to be very optimistic about the potential for this technology to reshape the way businesses work. It's just going to take a little bit longer than the avid consumer adoption that Jim referenced....
....MUCH MORE
We've said previously, as with nanotechnology, there won't be a line item on the income statement labeled "AI profits" for existing companies. The payoff will be incremental, though some increments will be large, and appear as both top-line revenue gains and costs contained before getting to the bottom-line.
Along the way you'll have AI-assisted drug development in pharma and biotech, material sciences breakthroughs in companies that make physical stuff, reduced labor costs as human beings are made redundant or more efficient at the tasks they are paid to do and thousands of other ways the technology will infiltrate society and the economy.